multiaccounting - bann /

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spawni
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multiaccounting - bann /

#1 Post by spawni » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:20 am

My questions goes to "not get caught"-section

So far multiaccounting is allowed under some restrictions in RoM. For example:
Two accounts from one pc are allowed do to tq at the same time.
Doing mats while other char is going to play other stuff is allowed.

Two chars doing diffrent things at the same time from the same pc is not allowed - and normally not possible :D

During the last week some players (I am sure- the did no bot-stuff) get their accounts closed. Reason unknown.
Rumors: Multiaccounting doing diffrent things with diffrent chars from one ip-adress / pc. Never aknowledged offical.

I don´t believe it. Never seen the froggies doing there homework and reading the logs and information.
To make the rumor true they had to:
1. log the ip (which is changing day to day)
2. log the mac-adresses from the network-card of every players profile which is logged in at that time
(what is not possible - in the internet there is only one one mac-adresse which is in every package-
the routers mac)
3. log what every profile does in that time
4. put all that stuff together
4. have an intrest to close such accounts (why should they - brings more money)

Whats your meaning / experience? Can that rumor be right?

Germangold
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#2 Post by Germangold » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:11 am

2. log the mac-adresses from the network-card of every players profile which is logged in at that time
acctually i guess each "client.exe" sends critical information like resolution, settings and your local mac adress to frogster

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lisa
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#3 Post by lisa » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:40 am

My guess and anything on the subject would be a guess =)

They probably had 1 character/account flagged for some reason and while under investigation they were discovered as multiboxing.
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#4 Post by rock5 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:00 am

lisa wrote:My guess and anything on the subject would be a guess =)
My guess is that your guess, that anything on the subject is a guess, is a guess. :P
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spawni
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#5 Post by spawni » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:33 am

so I guess it is all a guess XD

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#6 Post by onewhoknows » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:51 pm

Yes the rumors are true.


1st - the game client send your mac address to the server. Not a rumor, verified fact.


2nd - Game logs every thing (just about) and yes, the GM's do check those logs.

How do I know? Because I did it - I am a former frogster GM.


And I have spent hours on one botter account comparing item logs (which record every item picked up/looted/modified/destroyed), kills logs and quest logs to prove that 2 accounts on the same computer where doing actions automatically - or at least one of the two was.

I have seen players running 9 accounts at a time, and found where a character on each account did some kind of activity that requires normal human interaction at the same second of each other...


Granted, it is easier to find a botter by just talking to them and not having you respond. GMDetect doesn't help btw (well it would if the GM isn't doing his job) - the GM's are aware it exists and usually by the time a GM talks to you or makes an appearance, you have already been watched for a couple minutes. Thus you suddenly having to leave at the precise second a GM says Hi to you is unlikely. If any thing it raises red flags. At most all it does is force a GM to resort to the logs.

I'm against botting... so normally I wouldn't say any thing. But over the past 2 years I have been lurking here in the forums getting a kick out of reading the various ban accounts as well as all the speculation that goes on about how the bans happen or why some accounts/bots get banned vs others so I wanted to clarify some of the details for you all :D

I had a longer post typed up but I'll leave it at this. I'm willing to clear up most questions any may have - nothing I could say would really make it harder for GM's to find you - at least not with out hurting your botting productivity

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#7 Post by spawni » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:40 am

So - if you say the truth - and you are a former GM:
Maybe I get answers and internas.

I started botting after ingame-ways to earn money were dead because of bad balancing.
Only High-Equiped players or high amount money spending players can get all the money.
Fun of the game for a free to play game was / is over for me.

On my server prices for Items (Weapons, Armor) are in the xx kk and now in the xxx kk. ´Potions are
so cheap- if you try to sell them - it doesn´t eaven gets the used matts back. Crafting in RoM is for nothing.

So - as I am a programmer in real life - i found a new interessting field - doing a little bot-stuff.
At least - I put no damage to the game. I am running serveal SoK trying to kill all the bosses. Earn is so less-
Wahooo- now I can buy me "nothing" ;-)

One reason for the high prices: Goldseller
I have one question: Why are the frogster-boys doesn´t do anything against goldsellers?

If it is so easy to catch the botters - why is it so damn difficult to get all accounts out of the game, which are selling gold via a char in public areas - alway shouting in different color´s they are offering.

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#8 Post by Budzer » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Well if it is true, than I can not understand, why bots (sometimes more then 10) are running on one PC, keep running for days with no consequences (well finding egg bot is so easy - as probably everyone farming eggs is botting...). Why there are so many other abuses on live servers (as mentioned goldsellers - they should be much easier to find). And most important how many GMs are working for Frog, as maybe this is the answer to the other questions.....

Honestly I am expecting to be banned anytime now (I would probably end up ROM in Q1 2012 anyway), but I am expecting this for 2-3 months now and still nothing.... At this point I am wondering what actually frog workers do? Well support is simply doing nothing, is incompetent and rude (of course maybe I and few of my friends have a bad luck...).

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#9 Post by rock5 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:16 am

You know, I often think that if they ever figured out a way to 100% stop all botting they would loose a fair chunk of their income. I suspect a fair percentage of players bot at least some and I think most would loose interest and stop playing quicker if they couldn't bot as well. Actually I think botting helps frogster because as people start to get bored with the game, botting can help to stimulate their interrest and keep them playing longer. I know I would have given up years ago if it wasn't for the botting and I've had numerous people say they would have stopped playing if it wasn't for our work here.
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lisa
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#10 Post by lisa » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:13 am

yeah the game itself got boring for me a long time ago, now days I pretty much just seige for fun and that's about it.

I get bored of all MMO's eventually though, they just make them so repetative.
Remember no matter you do in life to always have a little fun while you are at it ;)

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#11 Post by onewhoknows » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:05 pm

Is there a limit to the post size? I keep trying to answer every one's post but keep getting the message "Your post has been ignored" some thing about spam when ever I post my response... My response is only 120 lines long lol...

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#12 Post by Administrator » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:00 pm

onewhoknows wrote:Is there a limit to the post size? I keep trying to answer every one's post but keep getting the message "Your post has been ignored" some thing about spam when ever I post my response... My response is only 120 lines long lol...
It has nothing to do with length and everything to do with any number of different filters. Most commonly, you have an external link. These filters are in place for all new users.

If you think it is in error, send a copy of the message you are trying to post to admin@solarstrike.net

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#13 Post by onewhoknows » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:31 pm

Administrator wrote:
onewhoknows wrote:Is there a limit to the post size? I keep trying to answer every one's post but keep getting the message "Your post has been ignored" some thing about spam when ever I post my response... My response is only 120 lines long lol...
It has nothing to do with length and everything to do with any number of different filters. Most commonly, you have an external link. These filters are in place for all new users.

If you think it is in error, send a copy of the message you are trying to post to admin@solarstrike.net

message sent...

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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#14 Post by onewhoknows » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:37 am

Thanks Administrator for your quick response - I took your advice and slightly modified my reply.

spawni wrote:
One reason for the high prices: Goldseller
I have one question: Why are the frogster-boys doesn´t do anything against goldsellers?

If it is so easy to catch the botters - why is it so damn difficult to get all accounts out of the game, which are selling gold via a char in public areas - alway shouting in different color´s they are offering.
First, I need to include a disclaimer - all my comments are based on FAI and their policies. EU is in charge now. I have no idea how they run things so keep that in mind...



I had a long post typed up to answer every one, only to have the forum say that it was spam...


the gold selling/spamming industry is a multi-billion dollar deal. They have the time and resources that only a game company like Blizzard would have.


Some time go to Pioneer Colony and stand where players appear for the first time. See if you can see players just appearing and then vanishing, one after an other.


Those are seller/spammers being created - a regular player will take of running.


We have concluded that these guys use an automated process of registering accounts.


One of my tasks when I first joined the team was to go after the gold seller networks. What I would do is fire up the login logs for a spammer name.

You can search the logs based on IP or account name. Entering in an account name, we can get all the IP's that access that account for the given time range. I would jot down all those IP's.

Then for each IP, I would search that IP to get a list of accounts, and jot those down. I would do this back and forth until I stopped getting new accounts and new IP's - as I came across the accounts, I would ban them.


These logs list 30 records per page and records just the login/logout.


One day I was given an IP to ban the accounts off of. 700+ pages. For every 5 pages I cleared - and all I did was just hit the ban button - 10 more were added.


We only got the ability to mass ban in the past few months. IP bans are out of the question as EU had to ban them. Plus they use proxies.


Hundreds of accounts would be created an hour.

Spammers is an never ending battle. You could have a team on it all day and still not clear them all out.


I wrote an addon that is 99% efficient at blocking spam. Administrator had cautioned me about revealing to much about my self (in case Frogster staff are reading), so if you are interested just shoot me a PM.



The GM's try to keep the spammers out. there was one GM who's primary job was the spammers. He would mac address ban spammers left and right, banning hundreds of accounts instantly.

it is an never ending battle that will always exist until the developers decide to implement things them selves.


@Budzer - Bots can escape dections for a couple reasons:

1. First and for most - 95% of bots banned by FAI were due to player reports. The other 5% are ones found while hunting the first 95%, or found based on Ah sales or miller ranch activity - yes, we can pull up a list for every zone/instance and see who has visited it and how many times. And every so often i would pull up miller ranch and just work down the list.

2. Of the reported names, a few get missed due to misspellings of the botters name. Even better is if you have a hex character in the name and the reporter fails to mention that.... I spent a month tracking down Assasin (hope that was the correct spelling) - never could find him online... only to find out after some one sent in a screen shot that the "i" in Assasin was a hexed version. Of course I then found him instantly lol


3. Time of botting - if one is smart and only bots during certain hours, it minimizes the risk of detection. GM's can't just sit in a server for 24 hours waiting for you to show up. I usually ran through the servers once in any given day. If I checked it at 10:30am my time, and you show up at 4pm my time, I missed you. I would however try to randomize the times I checked, including even once a week pulling an all nighter to nab any who bot while I sleep.

4. The botter is actually playing and not botting - I don't know how many times I teleported to a suspected botter only to find my self in the middle of a big fight in HoS, HodL, etc. Or just standing in your house, town, etc - if you aren't actively doing some thing I move on.

Some things got away with due to our last boss being more relaxed. The GM in charge of harassments/bad names was basically told to only step in if it was really bad. This was a change from previous bosses where just saying "wtf" could get you silenced for 24 hours or so. It bugged the GM that more harassment issues couldn't be dealt with.


I don't know how many GM's EU has.


I do know that 90% of the GM's did every thing they could for the community. We were asking for diamonds to be given out with the last chest issue. But was denied. It was the GM's who got the policy of "one time item return" for those items lost due to user error.

But every thing ultimately comes as the result of higher ups - we fought to get diamonds back in the AH - we were shocked to hear that the new General manager for GAI was fighting for that - but then he had to focus elseware: Rumor had it EU wanted to shut down gifting from the Item shop due to fraud. I do not know how true that rumor is...

Fact is, EU controls every thing that happens with the US servers - if we wanted to compensate a server with diamonds - EU had to approve it. there was some lea way that the support staff could do on an individual basis, but we had to be careful with that.

Now EU controls support so who knows what else will change.

The GM's did a great job of accepting all the negative comments about poor support, etc when really it was all out of supports hands.


Now I'm sure there were occasions where a couple GM's did provide bad support - but with out knowing the issue and the response given, I can't say if that was GM failure or company policy - i do take comments about poor support with a grain of sand - any player who doesn't get their way is going to think support is poor.



But I know 4 of the GM's (my self included) worked 16 hour days for free for a year to help the community - they would not knowingly do any thing to hurt players.


@rock - Frogster wants the botters gone. or at least they did. They just have to prioritize the resources. If they didn't want them gone they never would have agreed to the policy of 30 days first offense, perma second - for all accounts on a given IP. I have seen players banned to had just spent $50 on diamonds the day before. Lots of players think that saying "i have spent money" will get you better service or keep you from getting banned. It doesn't I treated every one the same. I never banned a player with out being as sure as I could be that they deserved it.

What is funny is when a player claims to have spent "thousands", yet you look at his history and only see $200, maybe $400 in purchases.


new players are coming in all the time. So most who may quit will be replaced pretty quickly. that is why seeing threats of "make this change or I and 20 of my friends will leave" don't matter to FAI... by the time you have posted it we have already had 100 other accounts sign up.

Plus we constantly see players who ragequit showing back up 3 months later.


Of the botters, most do not spend that much money, or of the accounts that get banned. I have seen a few big spenders, but it is on the low side. Often the money they spent was more then 4 months ago - that is ancient history.

Personally, I have no problem with a paying customer getting priority service - but I also believe the the TOS/EULA applies to all.


I understand the game being boring - it got that way for me after 6months of working. Who wants to play the game after spending 8 hours that day working the game. I got to the point that when I try to play, all I do is stand for 2 hours staring at the back of my character's head.


Botting for me wouldn't help keep my interest. Yes, i have the resources and computers to do it. But I'm so bored of the game that I wouldn't know what to do with the stuff I gathered. I can see the fun in coming up with the scripts or finding the new memory addresses - but the actual botting process to me seems pretty boring at this stage. Yippie - I just collected 100 golden eggs. I can sell them but what am I going to do with the gold? lol

Only reason why I'm even still paying attention to RoM is because I'm curious to see how badly RoM burns with EU running things completely. And I am the webmaster for a guild in Govinda. The RoM forums are so ingrained into my daily web browsing habits that I check it 10 times an hour.

And of course, now that I'm not a GM any more I can more freely speak about some of the stuff that before now I had to bite my tongue - especially since it is all in the past lol

Loveyouhatefrog
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#15 Post by Loveyouhatefrog » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:04 am

Prices did not raised due to gold sellers.
Prices went up beacause the end gamers reduced the prices of dia to 8k-10k each .fact.
They made the dia selling completly useless while they were asking for high prices.fact.
Those could be prevented if the CM would encourage the players to sell at a good price

Second .I think the GM do not do a good job even if they work 24/7 ,I dont even think you even know what you wrote..you actually posted yourself you werent dealing with the bad roots where the gold comes from ,you just banned spam bots sowhat? you have to ban the players behind the bots ,find where/how they get the gold ,and ban that stash of gold period.No gold ,no gold sellers ,third the CM should have notify the players not to buy gold.
and FFS! EU are even worse spammers than the gold sellers!! all kinds of spam msg from the server/like the bloody gallery ot events notifying...
If theyd reduce the spam and post a lil more warnings that would help.

And why people bot?? cus they made the game simply mean and vile!!
4 eggs per hour if you farm! and how many eggs you need to get a good pet??
40-50k?? and so on......
If you ask me the REAL gold sellers are the DEVs themselves.....

Blyad
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#16 Post by Blyad » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:46 am

Blyad here again, i wish to confirm that this person is infact a GM, i would like to submit my most recent ban ticket as evidence as i am the "Assasin" he talks about. ive blurred out his name in the ticket as he has chosen not to say i can only assume he doesnt want it posted.


BTW feel free to mock my pathetic attempts to get the ban reversed. this particular GM is one of my favorites and im very please to see he lurks around here ^_^


So OneWhoKnows, my primary question is, when you were in control of the bot hunting devision of the GM staff, why didnt you simply ban bot users for there macro's? the bots controlled by them and i can only assume you have access to that information.
Attachments
Screenshot of a 2 month old support ticket for when i finally got nailed for botting this game for damn near 3 years.
Screenshot of a 2 month old support ticket for when i finally got nailed for botting this game for damn near 3 years.

onewhoknows
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#17 Post by onewhoknows » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:50 pm

Blyad wrote:Blyad here again, i wish to confirm that this person is infact a GM, i would like to submit my most recent ban ticket as evidence as i am the "Assasin" he talks about. ive blurred out his name in the ticket as he has chosen not to say i can only assume he doesnt want it posted.


BTW feel free to mock my pathetic attempts to get the ban reversed. this particular GM is one of my favorites and im very please to see he lurks around here ^_^


So OneWhoKnows, my primary question is, when you were in control of the bot hunting devision of the GM staff, why didnt you simply ban bot users for there macro's? the bots controlled by them and i can only assume you have access to that information.
First, I never made the distinction between botting using macro's and botting using a 3rd party app - my defination of botting is doing any activity that allows your character to play/gather with out user interaction - excluding abilities available by default in the game - aka, farming in the guild castle.


Fighting a mob normally requires you to select your mob and pick a skill to attack it - any thing that allows your character to select and kill a mob with out you physically moving your mouse (or hitting the tab button) and doing the actions over and over is botting - whether its for 3 minutes or 7 days.

I tried to ban you Blyad 2 years ago - but GM Icarii gave you a clear ticket - (If I remember correctly you were the one who talked to him about macro's and he told you as long as you were there, etc you were fine). I always considered you to be botting. Some one just higher up over ruled me.

It wasn't until two bosses later that we got the clear to ban botters who just use macro's. I sent every thing I had on you Blyad to my boss, explained the situation as best and as fairly as I could and he gave the clear to ban.


No, Standard GM's do not have access to users macro's - we can only see what the tools provided to us showed us. For example, for most of the 2 years GM's could not read any chat in private channels - Trade chat - no one got banned for harassment, language, etc in trade chat unless a screen shot was given to prove it. I believe this is in the process of changing though.

This is also why the house chest is such an issue. As of my last day, GM's had no way of telling what had been in your house chest. If you just put some thing in there recently, we could at least verify you had the item - but once the logs for house chest / house maid activity were broken.

Same for the TP reset - we have no way of verifying how much TP one had before a reset. All we can see is how much tp you have *now*.

But that is at our level. Actual server admins have access to the raw database and other tools - as evidence by them being able to return at least some of the missing house chest items.


And no, we didn't receive any notice on the downsizing. I was in fact in the middle of responding to your ticket Blyad when we were called into a meeting and were told the news. We stopped working then and there... Got a full months pay for nothing lol. In fact by the next day I couldn't have done any thing if I wanted to.


@loveyouhatefrog - By the prices I meant what the spammers were advertising for. Right now it is 10mil+10% for $10 or some thing like that - long time since I have paid attention...

At our peak of clearing out gold seller bank accounts it was some thing like $20-$30 for 5 to 10mil gold. I wasn't speaking about the actual prices of items in the AH or the cost of diamonds.

If EU ever starts effectively knocking down gold sellers you will see their prices go up.


We did go after the root problem of the spammers, the sellers. I would ban whole gold seller networks. We find one gold seller and work off of him. One week I banned 800 accounts across 160 IP's - and it started with a verified gold seller network. One day I and a couple others removed a combined total of 8billion + gold from gold seller banks.

Yes, in the past few months we didn't hit it as hard but that is because other issues took priority. We did still have a GM going after the sellers and an other one was still going after the stored up gold. Just 1 GM can't hit them hard enough, not across 7 servers.


I don't know about the EU servers, but the US servers did tell every one not to buy gold. Every 10 or 20 minutes a message is displayed in game warning that buying gold will get your accounts banned.

And I agree, more needs to be done to get rid of them. But not every boss has that focus. GM's get in trouble


Sounds like you play the EU servers - I have no knowledge of how EU Gm's, support, etc work. At the start of my career I was told that if an EU staff member ever talked to me, I was to forward them to my boss. It wasn't until I was terminated that I spoke to my first EU staff member, other then when I was flown out to cali for GDC - got to speak with the Project Manager for RoM.

I do know that when EU took over, some of us GM's were just waiting for things to explode. And it did - tickets automatically closing - and giving the reason that it is being closed because I the player didn't respond in time?

That is just crazy - FAI's support answered every single ticket except gold spammer reports or tickets that were spamming support. Yes, Pre-defined answers were used - but not once was a ticket answered "automatically" and then closed.

I always modified my Pre-defined answers - I was 50/50 most I would just hand type.


I worked the servers hosted by FAI - never touched an EU server or handled EU support other then to send a wayward player to the correct support team.

As for the spam by Frogster, I agree - way to much of it. - bugs me so much that version 2.0 of my addon will filter those announcements, allowing only 1 announcement every 10 minutes or so. I really hate the "come on in addon" - I even mentioned once about trying to either get it banned or at least talking to the author to cut back the amount of messages it sent out lol.

As for why botting - I understand why some one would want to bot while still playing the game. But if one is already sick of the game, that doesn't make sense. You just build up resources for a game that you are too sick to play and thus use those resources.


I haven't actively played the game for more then 2 hours a week since middle of 2010. One of the perks at first for volunteering as a greeter/GTM(FM as they are now called) was getting x-amount of diamonds a month - that practice died out about a year or so ago, have no idea if current volunteers get "paid" that way or not. Any ways, as the various sales came up I would spend those diamonds on mounts (have 15/16) and the purie packages. I have 35 of the 8 purie packs at least.

If I had this back in 2009/early 2010 when i was playing 5 hours a day, every day all week I would be thrilled. Any player would.

but now I'm sick of the game. I try to transmute stats on to my new staff and I'm too bored to hit the "transmute" button. I go in game thinking "Great, new gear" - Spend 5 min looking in the AH - turn to my second monitor and watch a movie or tv show - 2 hours later I shut RoM down.


You may not believe that I know what I'm talking about - that is fine. Bylad has knows me, and I can prove who I am. And I'm sure if I were to say my name some of the other guys here would know...


back to Bylad - I loved our little back and forth via tickets - its partly because of those comments (and others making the same ones) that I recommended to EU to be more clear about botting being banned in the TOS. And I do have to admit it felt good to finally ban you after two years of tickets coming in. How ever, I hope you and any one else I banned understand, its nothing personal.

As a player, I never felt bothered by botters. Unless they were hogging an area I needed farm to do quests - like the dog meat.

Before taking this job I doubt I ever would have reported a botter. Even now I probably wouldn't - hackers yes. I hate hackers.

Blyad
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Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#18 Post by Blyad » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:16 pm

it's all good. EU gm's cleared me (apparently in the downsizing they lost/ EU GM's have access to less software than you did) so there were unable to verify my claims that the previous GM staff was biased due to large number of ticket complaints on triple exp about my farming (which is total BS you have allways been fair to me) however it worked, and they unlocked my accounts on a "final warning basis" any future offenses on my MAC/IP will result in all my accounts returning to banned.

but ill obviously just bot on a new mac/ip with new accounts instead.


my Taco The Cat ticket was fun, didnt expect it to work, but ive allways wanted to ask, but didnt bother because i knew you couldnt say, what's the most intresting "QQ unban me ticket" you recieved while handing the bott hunting?

and in the final stages of your job, what qualified a player as a 'Bot' for you to ban? example : multiple accounts on the same MAC killing multiple mobs within 7ms is what you finally nailed me for.

it's intresting to speak to you, someone who's worked for 'the other side' without the 'gloves on' so to speak.

*it allso really strokes my epeen to know that all this time i was joking about botting with GMs in world chat, and blatantly admitting it to my entire server there was a GM out there getting the Nope.jpg from his boss about it ^_^ just goes to show how messed up frogster was.

regardless, i enjoyed talking to you inbetween/durning suspensions i hope you hang around here more.

onewhoknows
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#19 Post by onewhoknows » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:29 pm

I thought your cat story was funny, but highly suspect. But I have a problem - I don't want to ban innocent players. Every shred of evidence I had I would go over 2 or 3 times before issuing a ban.

This stems from a time when I was playing BHD with a friend. We were in a server that we didn't control and at the time he didn't know I was playing. I had slipped in under a different name. While playing "undercover", I was in ventrilo with them.

As I was playing, I could here them talking about me. I was playing so well that my best friend in the world would have banned me right then and there on the spot.

Then i revealed who I was. I bet his face turned bright red. Because he knows me - He knows I would never use hacks. That drove home to me that you never know the true facts behind what you see.

Fact is, we can never be 100% sure some one is botting. Its not like I can select your name and get a report on running processes to find micromacro.exe and say "yes, he is running micromacro" - it is all based on interpretation of the data, what you see compared to the general population.


And that is what gets me the most with the RoM community - every one in the RoM forums speaks about stuff like they know what is going on.... and its hard to not say any thing.


But any ways, ever since that incident, if I have the slightest doubt, I hold off on a ban. Some admins are willing to ban 2-3 innocent players to catch all the cheaters (or this case botters) - I'm the opposite - I'll let 2-3 botters go to save all the innocent players.


In your case, it ultimately wasn't my decision. I sent it to my boss. I suspected your story was an attempt to get out of the ban. And it was pretty good and funny. It put that doubt there. And of course, my boss is always willing to give second, third, forth chances.

Your chat about botting is what helped lead to your down fall. I sent all of that in to my boss. Basically I was trying to get it to the point of "joking about botting = banned for botting".


Finding a kill with in 7ms of each other is just icing on the cake. All i really looked for was either a mob kill or buying/selling to a vendor. Most of the time the buying/selling to a vendor as there is no part of the game that will have you buying/selling over and over automatically - it is a task that for regular players has to be done manually.

And this was for those using the pet auto craft addon or millers ranch botters. I would just find examples of two characters on the same mac/ip talking to the vendor at the same time - that is all I needed to say some one is botting based on logs. But I would go further - if you had 4 accounts, i would find a time where every character talked to a vendor with at least one other character, with all 4 characters talking to the vendor as close to each other as possible - preferably with in the same second.


But, I can hear some question - maybe its 2 accounts on 2 computers with 2 people playing, what about that? it certainly is possible - but most of the time you guys made it easy on us.


You guys aren't very creative with naming and the emails you use for accounts.


accounts are created like "abcd1", "abcd2", "abcd3", "legitacount".

Then account "abcd1" uses the email addres "legitaccount07".

"abcd2" uses email address "legitaccount07" - but different email provider

Finally, account "legitaccount" uses email address "abcd2"


You guys help tie all your accounts together by mixing and matching account names and emails. Just screams "this is all one person".

Or even better all botting accounts were actually sub-accounts of the billing account.


But the preferred method of verifying you are a bot is just to check you out face to face - it is the quickest and funniest since you get to go in game. Using logs, it can take 2-4 hours to for me to confirm botting to my satisfaction. Other GM's would probably take short cuts based on what they see (700 pages of logs for 3 days of activity vs 300 pages for a normal player for the same time frame).

We would first find you - and then watch you hidden to establish a pattern. Those of you who use teleporting or jumping in millers ranch are sunk before we even become visible. I don't care if as soon as I show up you said Hi. I have seen enough lag to know the difference between lag and rubber banding and jumping from spot to spot.

After watching you for a minute or two, some times longer - we then would try various things to see if the player is there or not.

If you start talking, well that puts doubt in our minds and usually nothing more will happen, I would just check you out a few days later. it was only for very rare cases that I would after checking a bot out in game turn around and use the logs.

But we would test the responses to verify they aren't scripted - having you describe the color of my gear for example.

As for most interesting unban ticket - believe it or not, not many botters complained. Bylad - by far you were the most persistent and most interesting.

The ones I appreciated the most though were those who accepted the ban, apologized for botting and would appeal for some one who innocently got caught up in the mix. I was always willing to work with some one who seemed to accept what is going on.

There were a few of "F you, @#90)@* you, how dare you ban me" kind of things - that is not the way to get help. it immediately puts the support staff looking at your ticket in a mood to do the opposite of what you want.


but really, I didn't get as much feed back on the bans as one would expect. I dealt with more "why am I banned" then "please unban me" - I guess people don't read their mail, or they don't keep their email information up to date lol.


really, how you handle the ticket can be night or day as to what support will do for you. Support staff have guidelines - but there is room to wiggle. I have done things for players thanks to the attitude of their ticket that most players would never get. And others due to the rudeness, language, etc just got the bare minimum required handling.

Blyad
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:16 am

Re: multiaccounting - bann /

#20 Post by Blyad » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:27 pm

to be perfectly honest Taco has activated my bot on multiple occasions however that day specifically i honestly forgot to stop that character before going to work. was in a slight rush, i simply waited until Taco go back up on the laptop and laid down that coaxed her to stay there and pose for the camera for some parmasan cheese. if you review the video you will see she looks up from the E key and starts licking her lips.


and your right, most rom players think how much money you spent effects if you get unbanned or not, so i made sure my massive stack of 500 2 dollar zeevex cards was in the shot ^_^

as for banning based on vendor transaction theres multiple addons that buy and sell at the click of a button and honestly it would be two lines of code to have them trigger as a on open frame event and add a delay an addon called SellMode could be modified to do so and have a 1 second delay added in that would directly mimic the behavior that the bot here preforms when selling to a vendor.

as for names and emails all my botting accounts other than Blyad and Assassin were 10 minute mails (disposable email accounts) and honestly myself my wife and two other people played at my house. however the other two were infrequent.

as for the color gear system. ironically im color blind god damn cone deficiency



ultimately i think i enjoy getting banned and unbanned more than i did playing the game itself. and overtime i think you guys gave me more leaway than i deserved.

but thank you for stroking my e-peen im 1# most reported botter 1# most intresting ban appeal writer.

but as you stated, it's that blatant egotistical narcissism and joking about being the "Bot King of Grimdal" that lead to my downfall in the first place, however i intent to keep the title until EU runs this game into the ground.

Love allways, Sass/Blyad

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